Wikipedia:Requesta de Synchbot

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Synchbot (via Pathoschild)

Bot approval request

tasks • contribs • count • sul • logs • page moves • block user • block log • flag log • flag bot

• 1. Operator  : Pathoschild
• 2. Automatic or Manually Assisted : automatic (supervised)
• 3. Programming Language  : Python
• 4. Function Summary  : maintains user pages across all Wikimedia projects
• 5. Edit period  : continuous in ≈monthly batches (see archive)
• 6. Edit rate requested  : ≈0–20 edits per month (depending on number of requests)
• 7. Already has a bot flag (Y/N)  : N (not requesting a bot flag; see below)
• 8. Function Details  :
• Note on user accounts  : m:Synchbot is the name of the service and request page (no user:Synchbot exists). The bot edits and deletes using the non-bot User:Pathoschild account for technical reasons (see below).

Synchbot is a crosswiki bot that creates, updates, and deletes user pages across Wikimedia projects in every language. It only touches user pages when publicly requested by the associated user, and has been active since 2008. Since global user pages were introduced in 2015, it mostly deletes local user pages so the global ones can take effect. (It doesn't delete the user page if they have a block history, and doesn't delete the user_talk page if it has a discussion history.) It runs under my own account because it needs my editinterface and global deleter global permissions, and sometimes involves manual work. See m:Synchbot for more information about the service.

As suggested by an anonymous user, I'd like to confirm whether the community wants Synchbot to continue editing and deleting pages here. Note that Synchbot can optionally customise its behaviour on iawiki — for example, it can use the {{eliminar}} template instead of deleting pages itself. Since every edit on iawiki is for a different task and the edit rate is very low, I suggest not setting a bot flag to simplify community oversight.

Synchbot has been paused on this wiki pending confirmation on whether this service is welcome on iawiki. —Pathoschild 04:14, 4 april 2016 (UTC)

Discussion about Synchbot & user page policy

User talk page creation

User page deletion looks good, as it reduces local maintenance. But creating talk pages that only redirect is almost the opposite. There are thousands of active WP users. That would make finding real user pages harder, and the blue links may invite users to follow links, just to find nothing but a redirect. 91.9.107.131 04:40, 4 april 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. The crosswiki redirect on User talk:Nhóm Thông tin Wikimedia was only created due to the unusual nature of the account (see the associated request for discussion). Usually such a request would be declined, because they should use global user pages instead and normally shouldn't redirect the talk page. —Pathoschild 06:27, 4 april 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't think that my request can be so far and cause trouble for Pathoschild. Only one simple question: does ia.wiki prevent the creation of soft-redirect page for user namespace? If yes, so I will contact an admin to delete that violation user's talk page, or change it to other content which not violation anymore. If no and ia.wiki only don't want a "bot account" create it, I will beg Pathoschild to delete this page and create it by self. Thank you and sincerely apologize. --minhhuy ^(talk)

The action in question was in the user talk namespace. Any page creation by a bot should be approved first in this wiki. It would be nice if Pathoschild deletes his creations. Then there would be no local policy violation.

A soft-redirect created by the user itself seems currently to be OK. But also this needs further research. For the user space the global pages could be used. For user talk, it looks weird, but with future crosswiki notifications might be solved. In a case like yours, where the user does not contribute, then there will also probably no reason to post to their talk page. So, also here no reason to create a redirect page. Welcoming messages, certainly can cause trouble. Maybe they should be disabled in iawiki, especially if only a template-text is included. This is a very low traffic, clean wiki, recent changes and automated list of pages (e.g. AllPages in namespace ...) are still very helpful. 91.9.107.131 18:27, 4 april 2016 (UTC)

Thank you, I got it. Pathoschild, could you please delete User talk:Nhóm Thông tin Wikimedia on this wiki? Might it would be better if I create it by self, sorry again and thank you very much. Then, because this wiki don't prevent (or don't have any policy for) the creation of soft-redirect page for user namespace and user talk namespace, after the page has been deleted, I'll create it with same content before delete. Thank you. --minhhuy ^(talk) 05:47, 5 april 2016 (UTC)

Apart from adherence to bot policy, this may help in the future, as there might be a process to delete all user and user talk pages that don't have actual talk and were not created by the user itself. 91.9.117.187 06:24, 5 april 2016 (UTC)

@Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy: 91.9.117.187 has already flagged it for deletion. This wiki has its own administrators and this isn't a crosswiki task, so I'll defer to them. (Maybe you could just replace the delete template with your content, to make it a non-bot edit.) —Pathoschild 13:33, 5 april 2016 (UTC)

Bot description above says "maintains user pages across all Wikimedia projects", but reversion is not a crosswiki task? 91.9.117.187 14:12, 5 april 2016 (UTC)

Synchbot updates or deletes a user's pages across all projects simultaneously. Maintaining an individual user page is up to the owner of the page, with help from local administrators if deletion is necessary (or Stewards if local administrators are unavailable). I have permission to delete pages for the specific purpose of crosswiki Synchbot requests; this would be outside that remit. —Pathoschild 15:04, 5 april 2016 (UTC)

Thank you, I will wait until local admins delete that page. Make a modification seem only can cause more problem. I hope that at least, every account on ia.wiki can "do something" in their user namespace which non-violation. Maybe someone can't using Ia language or make any useful action for project, but we are in Wikimedia community and this project is an "open wiki" after all :^) --minhhuy ^(talk) 16:11, 5 april 2016 (UTC)

Classes of edits

• user page deletion
  • on request by user in meta
  • but not for this iawiki request Wikipedia:bot/2016#0005 "Synchbot only addresses a specific type of crosswiki task." [1]
  • can lead to items appearing in Special:Redirectiones rupte (user renamed from A to B, redirects left behind by rename process. Then B deleted, and A listed as broken. (Usator:Ralgis → Usator:Allan Aguilar; Usator:White Master King → Usator:White Master). This is a MediaWiki bug; see phabricator:T90978.
• user page creation
  • "if you have a local policy against redirected user pages, I'll make sure Synchbot does not create any redirected user pages on iawiki" [2]
    • there is a policy to have tasks approved first
  • redirect from user A to other project user B (e.g. Usator:G(x) - user has no edits)
• user page modification
• user talk page deletion
• user talk page creation
  • done, rules unclear
• user talk page modification

Re: classes of edit

Does the phrase "there is a policy to have tasks approved first" mean I would need specific approval for each Synchbot request, or a blanket approval for each type of request? —Pathoschild 15:07, 5 april 2016 (UTC)

The only useful with the type of edits you perform seems to be "by type". Above listed are 3*2 types. Are there more? 91.9.127.213 15:30, 5 april 2016 (UTC)

Synchbot handles arbitrary user requests, some of which may have custom requirements. Requests are accepted on a case-by-case basis, and negotiated to conform with crosswiki limitations and local community expectations. As a general rule, requests can be roughly divided into these types:

action	page	current guidelines (This information is only meant to explain how Synchbot requests are processed, and isn't absolute or comprehensive.)
create or update	user page	⚠ Discouraged since 2015; users should use their global user page instead. If accepted, the text must be compatible with all wikis (e.g. can't use templates or categories, since those won't exist on all wikis). Hard redirects are only accepted if the user was globally renamed.
	user talk page	⚠ Discouraged since 2016; users typically want this for "please contact me on wiki X" banners, which are no longer needed with the upcoming crosswiki notifications feature. If accepted, same guidelines as user pages.
	~/*.css or ~/*.js subpage	⚠ Discouraged since 2014; users should use global CSS/JS instead.
	other subpage	✘ Generally declined.
delete	user page	✓ Accepted. If the user has ever been blocked on this wiki (even once), their local user page won't be deleted.
	user talk page	⚠ Discouraged; only accepted for pages with no discussion history (e.g. only edited by Synchbot or the user).
	~/*.css or ~/*.js subpage	✓ Accepted.
	other subpage	⚠ Determined on a case-by-case basis.

Based on this discussion so far:

action	page	local policy on iawiki
create/update	user page	⚠ local policy unclear
	user talk page	⚠ local policy unclear
	~/*.css and ~/*.js subpages	⚠ local policy unclear
	other subpages	⚠ local policy unclear
delete	user page	✓ OK
	user talk page	⚠ local policy unclear
	~/*.css and ~/*.js subpages	⚠ local policy unclear
	other subpages	⚠ local policy unclear

—Pathoschild (discussion) 17:52, 5 april 2016 (UTC)

Re 1) css/js and 2) other subpages - is there a way to list all in 1 and separately all in 2? 91.9.127.213 18:26, 5 april 2016 (UTC)

What do you mean? Do you mean a list of all previous subpage requests? —Pathoschild (discussion) 21:19, 5 april 2016 (UTC)

No, existing subpages to know the maximum quantity of such deletions in the future. I only found a list via search [3] 91.9.127.213 21:44, 5 april 2016 (UTC)

Here's a full list of user subpages on iawiki. —Pathoschild (discussion) 00:32, 6 april 2016 (UTC)

CSS and JS subpages

Thanks a lot for the full list of user subpages on iawiki. This has relevance for user space documentation and exists now also at Wikipedia:Usator/subpage/list‎. Wikipedia:Usator#Subpagina shows some special cases, e.g. css created by you, but user does not exist. Could you delete these? The user itself may never ask, as she does not exist. 91.9.118.11 09:50, 6 april 2016 (UTC)

Here's a list of subpages for users who don't exist on iawiki. The list includes:

• Two pages created by an older version of Synchbot for global users (whose local accounts will be created the first time they visit). Synchbot no longer creates these pages pre-emptively.
• Five redirects created automatically when the user was renamed.
• Two pages created by local users.

I marked the two pages Synchbot created for deletion. —Pathoschild (discussion) 16:19, 6 april 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. I marked more, but cannot mark the css/js, it says I have no permission, because it is the config of another user. But that would also apply to you. Since you don't delete the clean-up depends on admins. What issues could arise when these css/js are deleted? Maybe if the exact page exists in meta, there should be no issue, as rendering won't change? Could you make an analysis for this, maybe also showing when the version in meta is different. So, three states for meta: absent, different, same. This could also be an interesting crosswiki clean-up operation. Maybe with message delivery to the affected users. PS: "Same" could have different behavior if content is transcluded, no idea whether this is possible for css/js pages. 91.9.118.11 19:33, 6 april 2016 (UTC)

The *.css and *.js subpages contain custom styles and scripts for that user. If the pages are deleted, the user will lose their customisations stored in those files. Custom CSS/JS comes from three places for each logged-in user:

user subpage	explanation
<skin name>.css and <skin name>.js	Loaded for that user when they view this wiki in that skin. For example, any scripts in User:Pathoschild/vector.js would run in my browser whenever I view a page here (since I use the Vector skin).
common.css and common.js	Loaded for that user when they view this wiki in any skin.
global.css and global.js on Meta	Loaded for that user when they visit any wiki in any skin (see global user pages). These are the only CSS/JS pages loaded from another wiki.

Synchbot popularised the global.css and global.js convention between 2008 and 2014, with local imports to run the global scripts. The imports became automatic in 2014 as part of global user pages, so the local imports are no longer needed. Any local CSS/JS page which only contains something like importScriptUrl('.../global.js...') is safe to remove. Removing these pages is a large part of Synchbot's remit. —Pathoschild (discussion) 23:32, 6 april 2016 (UTC)

The deficiency that not all css/js are imported seems to lead to Usator:Gz260/monobook.css import meta....User:Gz260/monobook_global.css. Maybe global import could be extended to any skinname.css/js. That meta is equalized with global could be another problem, or can one program the meta css/js to be different depending on meta and non-meta usage? Several others than from User:Gz260 that I checked only import /global.css/js. Could make a list with those, or mark them in the current list? 91.9.101.88 07:35, 7 april 2016 (UTC)

Each user's global.css and global.js subpages from Meta are loaded automatically, even if they don't have any CSS/JS subpages on this wiki and regardless of which skin they're using. Their other *.css and *.js subpages are only loaded on that wiki. For example, my scripts in m:User:Pathoschild/common.js (if it still existed) would only be loaded on Meta, and my scripts in m:User:Pathoschild/global.js are loaded on all wikis including this one (even though I don't have any CSS/JS pages on this wiki).

You can safely delete any subpages that only import ~/global.css or ~/global.js. Usator:Gz260/monobook.css imports ~/monobook_global.css (a custom page) instead of ~/global.css (the global CSS), but it can be deleted too because he already copied his styles into the latter.

Unfortunately page text isn't available on Tool Labs, so I can't easily generate a list of such pages. There's an indirect list at m:User:Pathoschild/2014–2016 global script migration, which lists all users who had a global.css or global.js subpage on Meta before global CSS/JS was introduced. Many of them have already been migrated using Synchbot. —Pathoschild (discussion) 23:43, 7 april 2016 (UTC)

Approved. --Julian (disc.) 15:43, 15 april 2016 (UTC)